Gay marriage: why fundamentalists hate it

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You live in a godless land like Europe, an American city or you at least grew up in the nicer part of town and your parents were Episcopalians.

I grew up in Savannah, GA, a tolerable and tolerant small southern city. Savannah had a Jewish mayor back in the 1950s and when I was in high school most of the dances were held at the local B'nai B'rith.

Savannah, like any place in the American south had lots and lots of churches. From the big old churches (John Wesley visited Savannah) like the one that has the oldest church organ in North America to the small churches attended by the Hardshell Baptists (a real denomination), down to the little shanty churches with odd names like Nazarene Mt. Olive Holy Miracle Tabernacle.

One of my first memories is of a Baptist church my grandmother took me to when I was a toddler. Not much older one of the things I did with my childhood best pal was go to church with her.

Later I'd go to church with a friend from Junior High. I got washed in the Blood of the Lamb.(I got saved!) My parents followed me to that church, eventually my daddy also numbered himself among the born again. I grew out of it, he didn't and would call me on the phone to tell me that he hoped I wasn't going to Hell.

I've never regretted my years among Fundamentalist Christians. I've always known they were there, tens of millions of them. Many of you have become acquainted with their existence since the President Bush II and his strategists have chosen to send a jolt of fear through them in an effort to insure a 2004 electoral victory. You see less than a fourth of America's self-identified born again population voted in the 2000 presidential election. Had a more sizable number visited the polls no one could've called the election stolen.

When the Supreme Court overturned Texas' sodomy laws it brought a vast inventory of latent homophobia out for retailing. The Republican leaders saw this and months before newspapers and bloggers were expressing their shocked and awed disgust had planned to exploit it. (My business partner sent me a link to The Nation many months ago that spelled out with spooky accuracy what we're seeing now.)

In blogspace you see people innocently wondering why we can't just get along. Fundamentalist should acknowledge the rights of gay people. Should understand that queer sexuality isn't a choice. That being ex-gay is a disgusting hoax. That is all nice. Myself I wish I could ship every religious fanatic to Mars (as in Cyril Kornbluth's The Marching Morons).

To an American Christian Fundamentalist it is all really simple: homosexuality is a sin. Why: because the Bible says so (what the Bible says is irrelevant, this is what they think the Bible says). People who repent and love Jesus will be granted the strength to overcome temptation (or delight as we know it). Why: the Bible says so. Only a fool, or a na´ve person thinks of dissuading a Fundamentalist Christian (or any believer in anything) that their interpretation of the Bible is wrong. Most American Christians think God spoke in attractive 17th century English (as taken down by his secretaries at King James order). Preposterous? You bet. Doesn't matter. These poor critters think a whale swallowed Jonah. They think their God created material reality in seven days and then took a day off. They are trying to rid American public education of the theory of evolution. It has been decades since the state of Tennessee tried to pass a law redefining pi as 3.0 but the mindset hasn't advanced much.

How do you have a dialogue with people like that? To them gay marriage is a perversion of God's ordained sacraments. As you may remember a couple of their more visible leaders have blamed the mere tolerance of gay people on everything from hurricanes to the bombing of the World Trade Center. And Hell, let us not forget Hell. People who sin and don't repent will go to Hell (a real place like Miami) and suffer unendurable, unending pain. Why: the Bible says so.

Detach yourself from rationality for a moment. You believe that an act will cause a person infinite pain. That a person who encourages a behavior known as 'sin' will cause others to also suffer eternally. As long as your sanity is on hold imagine that you know of a man that rapes and murders babies. And that this condition is a communicable disease that if it isn't suppressed will cause others to rape and murder babies. Welcome to the born again American's idea of sin.

If you thought someone wasn't merely engaged in act that would cause horrifying human misery but cause that misery to spread like a contagion what would you do? Welcome to the born again American's idea of sin. When we talk about the core of Fundamentalist Christians we are talking about a social and political species whose social and moral reality is starkly insane to most reasoning people. Perhaps C.S. Lewis and G.K. Chesterton were humane Christians. They aren't the average small-town, Baptist voter.

Or small city like my hometown of Savannah. Over the last several decades the tolerant mainline American denominations have steadily lost members. The violently conservative churches are the ones that have prospered.

The church that I went to as a teenager was an early member in the all but forgotten Moral Majority. When my family first attended that church it was a couple of ugly little buildings. Membership soared and within a few years the church created a huge complex including a fleet of buses and it's own elementary school.

These folks have always been here. They used to have more influence over American politics. They faded but they've returned. Their political power has been waxing for a good twenty years. Near as I can tell Philip Jenkins* is one of the few people who appreciate this. (Not to mention the increasing power their Third World equivalents have in the Roman Catholic Church and Anglican Communion.)

They are the enemy, a simplistic assertion, sure. The average fundy is little more than a na´ve bohunk, boob. Their leaders have grandiose visions of knocking down the Supreme Court, taking over local governments. They want to revive the old image of America as God's gift to the world: to lead the decadent Old World from its damnably secular ways. (I'm not going to try to justify those statements here; I have another weblog that often documents their frightening theocratic dreams.)

Other issues may affect some of those silly fundies when they finally vote. Monitoring as I do almost daily how humane politics, desires for pluralism offend them; more pertinently scare them I won't hope for that surprise gift. Besides analyzing elections before they have happened is as foolish as casting the I Ching or wondering what Bigfoot is (a hoax).

If you made it this far, you may think I'm nuttier than the people I'm describing. Pity I can't teleport you to a Baptist church in, say, Bacon County Georgia. That is an oddity you may demur. Then I'd have to transport you to churches in Southern California, Montana, Indiana and points in-between.

No reason to talk about logic or reason. These are the gut level beliefs that tens of millions of citizens of the US know as the truth. You might as well politely ask a tornado to go away.

Humanistic and liberal historical forces may yet win the day for us gay folk who'd like our relationship with our loved one to have legal status (and sacramental if you care about that sort of thing).

Myself I think this culture war may last for some time.

* The Next Christianity and Christianity's New Center

About my Christian Fundamentalist past: Bible Baptist Church of Savannah, GA

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Small point of information that doesn’t affect your argument. Perhaps you know better, or perhaps you were using it for rhetorical effect, but isn’t the redefinition of pi an urban myth (see

You have the stereotypical view of christianity. A true “born again” Christian does not believe that if a man rapes babies it will be transmitted to others. Some may, yes. The thing that separates some Christians from others is how well they are educated. The Bible is a historicly accurate and reliable book. there is only a .2% error rate between manuscripts, which is excpetionally small, as opposed to Homer’s Iliad, which has a 4.2% error rate and is taken as truth. Some ignorant Christians may believe much of what you have said. Please don’t stereotype all Christians. Some of us actually have reasons for believing, and plus Traditional Baptist are wacked out in some of what they believe. I have reasons to believe the people who started that denomination did not interpret the Bible well at all. Not all Christians are like that, so please don’t say they are.

That is some of the silliest Christian nonsense I’ve ever read. There are no original manuscripts - none. Every document that still exists is from centuries later than the time of purported composition. Your remarks about Homer are equally baffling in their presumption and ignorance.

That is where you are wrong. Some of the manuscripts were written less that 20 years after Christ’s death, which means there is no way legend could be included in it (Jewish oral tradition). I have evidence of this, but do not have time to write it all down, if you would like to hear it, email me. Ignorance? You are talking to me about ignorance? Look at your remarks and your comments about the Church. Not all churches are as messed up as traditional Baptist. All I am saying is please do not assume that all churches are as ignorant as traditional baptist. As I said before, some people actually know, and have evidence, for why they believe. I am not trying to start an arguement, just please don’t stereotype Christians!

While I’ve encountered some people with tunes as looney as the number you are playing is beginning to sound like a hoax to me.

If you have proof of the manuscripts you allege you could provide it here without needing anyone to email you.

You are arguing against the wrong arguement, which is a logical falacy, the straw man fallacy. All I am saying is do not stereotype Christians. I am not having a debate about the reliability and accuracy of the Bible.

You are the person who made the outrageous claims about Biblical accuracy. Not me.

Thank you for being amusing.

Yes, but you are the one who thought it was mainly what I was trying to say, which is obviously NOT the case. Or maybe you just cannot understand that you are stereotyping Christians. Made claims that I have evidence of, yes. Tried to argue them, not so much. I don’t see how you can say that that was my arguement. Read any of my posts and you can plainly tell that my point was to not stereotype Christians, and that some Christians are actually not ignorant. Definition of the Straw Man fallacy: attacking a point that is different than his or her main point.

Just to say something, I do NOT stereotype or think less of gay, lesbian, bisexual, or transgendered people. They are human, so am I, so who am I to say I’m better than them? I absolutely hate it when straight people are prejudiced about gay, lesbian,and etc. people. Just thought I would let you know.

Thanks for putting me under insane Christian comments. I appreciate it. Really. Nice to know how you judge me.

My comments on Christians are 97.3% accurate.

Thats nice. Why can’t you just not stereotype Christians and not judge them?

There are thousands of words about the history and culture of people who have designated themselves as Christians. Many variations and permutations included. Indeed I happen to be typing another one up right now.

That’s been what I have been trying to say! Christians are not all traditional Baptist, so please don’t label us!

Did you actually read the entry before you left your first comment?

First comment from when? My frst on ever, or what?

This is an entry about American Christian Fundamentalists.

Time to close this one out. I’ve written about Christians many times, in many different contexts including tonight’s entry in this weblog. I’m very aware of the distinctions among you even if I think they are irrelevant.

Your feelings?

Please share your feelings about Gay marriage: why fundamentalists hate it.

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Sodomitical Polity
Gay marriage: why fundamentalists hate it
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